Blue Bombers Forum

Surprised I'm the 1st to mention it! Read on 3downnation yesterday that he has expressed interest in returning to the CFL and the Bombers are 1st on his list of spots he would play, the article went on to say they are presently in talks. With idea the Dru finds a starting gig elsewhere I don't see Chris starting anywhere... #2 might be a good fit to extend his desire to play ball in the long run.

It's being discussed in other threads. Jeff Hamilton broke the news on Twitter yesterday.

You're just the first to create a thread for the topic. ;)

if Strev signs, I'm betting that TC fans in the stands will be out in full force 

Could work out well for us. I could see a one year deal towards the top of the backup salary range with big time bonuses per start if Collaros goes down. He'll probably need a year to get back into the CFL flow and that would be a good way to do it in a comfortable city he knows.

To replace Brown/Prukop in one player, and bring in a ELC development QB, kinda works. 

I'd still rather have Brown and an ELC short yardage guy...  but whatevs

Prukop is a better SY guy than Strev, in terms of making 99% of his SY attempts.  Strev botched a few, FWIR.  However, Strev always had the threat of doing a decent pass downfield or running for 40 on SY, so there's that...

My point is, don't be so quick to throw away Prukop as he's very capable and affordable... our best since Le Fevour.  I watch SY / Prukop like a hawk(tm).

As for Strevie as our legit backup #2 and #1a/b combo like 2019... I'm all for it!  Teams always had a hard time getting their defenders ready for both Zach and Strev, and no one knew how many snaps we'd leave Strev in for.  And I think Strev can win you .500 or .600 if Zach gets hurt.

I still think Strev can find a starting job in the CFL; not because he's great, but because so many others suck.  But how does it make sense for us to replace Dru with Strev?  If Dru gets a #1 shot somewhere for >$400k, sure, fine, he's gone.  But if Dru is going to be a normal #2, or even high paid #1b for an iffy Masoli or BLM, then how is he going to get paid any more than Strev will earn?  My point is, in many scenarios the Strev cost will equal the Dru cost: so why wouldn't we stick with "the future" Dru?

If QB money is tight, then the most likely scenario is Zach / Prukop(SY) / new-dev-ELC-guy.  That is by far the cheapest option.

https://3downnation.com/2024/01/11/qb-chris-streveler-eyeing-return-to-cfl-in-2024-has-begun-talks-with-bombers-report/

Strev would sell tickets

I would take Brown over Strev in a heartbeat

I would sign Strev but gotta be cheapish

Quote from: Blueforlife on January 13, 2024, 12:02:54 AM
https://3downnation.com/2024/01/11/qb-chris-streveler-eyeing-return-to-cfl-in-2024-has-begun-talks-with-bombers-report/

Strev would sell tickets

I would take Brown over Strev in a heartbeat

I would sign Strev but gotta be cheapish

Ya Strev would sell tickets... but do we really need to sell more tix?  Enough sell-outs as it is!  ;)

Strev would have to be under $200 for sure, and signing him probably means we can't afford Prukop anymore.  Strev would have to be #1b, #2 and SY, and we'd have to do a raw ELC guy as #3/dev.  It would be a weird scenario where our SY is #2 again, and the dev guy is basically PS and garbage-time only.

I really hope KW doesn't do foolish things like back up the truck for Strev when we don't really need him.  Need to focus on the puzzle pieces from the '23 GC...

Streveler is an upgrade over Prukop in every way, with the bonus of more ticket sales. He opens up a lot of options by putting him in on 2nd and 4 or 5 or even for a few sets. Unfortunately Prukop really was only useful in 3rd and 1 situations.

KW doesn't back the truck up for anyone but top stars

I would make designing brown the priority over CS. There?s no way in heck streveller would have pulled us out of the 22-0 pounding we were taking at the hands of the lowly elks and win the game for us. No way. His passing skills are limited and that?s why his nfl dreams are over. Sign brown and wherever cs goes all the best to him

unfortunately other teams feel the same way, Brown will be too expensive. The advantage to Streveler is that we can utilize him more in games to change the pace, or to augment our offence. Browns advantage is that if he was needed to start a game he would be more effective. (which is why hes likely to get 250k plus bonus money for every start with a team like Ottawa)

I definitely think we can't afford Streveler and Prukop behind Zach's salary.    If Brown is a foregone conclusion and is leaving us then I think Walters will be all in on Strevvy as our #2 and quite honestly I'm happy with that as we can then pick up a #3 guy and develop him.    Strevvy is pretty durable and tough as nails however he's a few years older now and if he gets injured then our #3 guy needs to also have some SY capabilities.   

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2024, 11:47:04 PM
Prukop is a better SY guy than Strev, in terms of making 99% of his SY attempts.  Strev botched a few, FWIR.  However, Strev always had the threat of doing a decent pass downfield or running for 40 on SY, so there's that...

My point is, don't be so quick to throw away Prukop as he's very capable and affordable... our best since Le Fevour.  I watch SY / Prukop like a hawk(tm).

As for Strevie as our legit backup #2 and #1a/b combo like 2019... I'm all for it!  Teams always had a hard time getting their defenders ready for both Zach and Strev, and no one knew how many snaps we'd leave Strev in for.  And I think Strev can win you .500 or .600 if Zach gets hurt.

I still think Strev can find a starting job in the CFL; not because he's great, but because so many others suck.  But how does it make sense for us to replace Dru with Strev?  If Dru gets a #1 shot somewhere for >$400k, sure, fine, he's gone.  But if Dru is going to be a normal #2, or even high paid #1b for an iffy Masoli or BLM, then how is he going to get paid any more than Strev will earn?  My point is, in many scenarios the Strev cost will equal the Dru cost: so why wouldn't we stick with "the future" Dru?

If QB money is tight, then the most likely scenario is Zach / Prukop(SY) / new-dev-ELC-guy.  That is by far the cheapest option.

Well, I have to say I completely disagree with you on Strev vs. Prukop. I'll take Strev any day of the week. We tried to what Strev does with Prukop, but it failed miserably and cost us the Grey Cup in '22. So, yes. Prukop doubled down on just performing the sneak to perfection. But it is not at all what Strev did for us.

As for Dru Brown, we aren't making the choice to move on, he is. Walters has said that even if we could afford him, he would still leave. It's not about getting a starting contract or being the Day 1 starter, it's about finding a place with more opportunity. Zach is the starter here barring injury; on other teams, it's less concrete.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 12, 2024, 11:47:04 PM
If QB money is tight, then the most likely scenario is Zach / Prukop(SY) / new-dev-ELC-guy.  That is by far the cheapest option.

I'm thinking the same thing. We have 600k tied up in QB's before we even sign a 2nd one. Strev is the same problem Brown would be. Walters has himself painted into a corner. What did we spend on QB's last year? around 800? That leaves us just 200k for 2 additional guys.

Our QB situation is probably the best in the league based on last couple years.  However, all three guys could get better opportunities elsewhere.

Zac is such a professional, and a pleasure to watch, and certainly brought us over the top, winning so many games.
With Strevlors NFL pension, wouldn?t that equate to NOT needing top dollars in Canada as his base salary?  Strev would sell tickets and he would be a nightmare to game plan against.  Arguably he could make the team even better, as defenses would have to adjust their personnel and even alignments to deal with his run game.

Certainly, some unknown American QB could suffice.  However with Strev, he is a known and feared player. Certainly Procop could be the backup, and short yardage guy as well. Interesting. 

Quote from: DM83 on January 13, 2024, 02:24:58 PM
Our QB situation is probably the best in the league based on last couple years.  However, all three guys could get better opportunities elsewhere.

Zac is such a professional, and a pleasure to watch, and certainly brought us over the top, winning so many games.
With Strevlors NFL pension, wouldn?t that equate to NOT needing top dollars in Canada as his base salary?  Strev would sell tickets and he would be a nightmare to game plan against.  Arguably he could make the team even better, as defenses would have to adjust their personnel and even alignments to deal with his run game.

Certainly, some unknown American QB could suffice.  However with Strev, he is a known and feared player. Certainly Procop could be the backup, and short yardage guy as well. Interesting. 

Up until Collaros goes down with a semi-serious injury as Nichols did a few times, we've been fortunate so far he hasn't missed many games in 4 years, but that could change in an instant.  I would keep an eye on Ottawa, they certainly can't hold onto 6 QB's if they sign Brown and would have to release a few of them, failing that Arbuckle and Cornelius are available right now and wouldn't cost much.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 12, 2024, 08:13:56 PM
To replace Brown/Prukop in one player, and bring in a ELC development QB, kinda works. 

I mentioned this exact thing on the /CFL reddit yesterday and it got quite a few upvotes.

Why would Dru sign elsewhere for the same money (or less) guaranteed than we can pay?  For the opportunity to win/inherit a starters role.  He's not going to win it here, and Collaros has been (knock on wood) pretty healthy of late.  So, getting in in Ottawa, or Hamilton, or Calgary with the same base and playing time incentives makes more sense if he wants a chance to start.  I get that.  And hate that. 

Strevey would sell tickets.  Which makes sense in Toronto, or Montreal, or even SSK.  But, as far as I rememeber, we led the league in tickets sold and sell outs last year.  Not a big issue here.

Quote from: DM83 on January 13, 2024, 02:24:58 PM
Our QB situation is probably the best in the league based on last couple years.  However, all three guys could get better opportunities elsewhere.

Zac is such a professional, and a pleasure to watch, and certainly brought us over the top, winning so many games.
With Strevlors NFL pension, wouldn?t that equate to NOT needing top dollars in Canada as his base salary?  Strev would sell tickets and he would be a nightmare to game plan against.  Arguably he could make the team even better, as defenses would have to adjust their personnel and even alignments to deal with his run game.

Certainly, some unknown American QB could suffice.  However with Strev, he is a known and feared player. Certainly Procop could be the backup, and short yardage guy as well. Interesting. 

A small NFL pension is nice but doesn't change a player wanting to earn big or bigger dollars. It doesn't change his desire to possibly be a starter. I'd be happy to get Streveler back but it's not a slam dunk. Money still talks.

Yes Strev isn?t Hall of Fame material.  But **** he might be the most exciting player. Getting those first downs, plowing over little linebackers and smurfs in the DB backfield smash mouth football.  I hate that,?.but our o line is so good at it.

Go Blue.

Quote from: Blue In BC on January 13, 2024, 04:52:46 PM
A small NFL pension is nice but doesn't change a player wanting to earn big or bigger dollars. It doesn't change his desire to possibly be a starter. I'd be happy to get Streveler back but it's not a slam dunk. Money still talks.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ottawa decided to sign Strev. over Brown, leaving Brown will almost no options.

Brown has earned an opportunity that is for sure.  He?d look good in Sask.

Where is the younger Roarke brother?

Quote from: Jesse on January 13, 2024, 12:55:58 PM
Well, I have to say I completely disagree with you on Strev vs. Prukop. I'll take Strev any day of the week. We tried to what Strev does with Prukop, but it failed miserably and cost us the Grey Cup in '22. So, yes. Prukop doubled down on just performing the sneak to perfection. But it is not at all what Strev did for us.

This. Streveler is considerably superior to Prukop.

Streve vs. Prokup.  Totally different roles/players/costs. 

Prokup #3 behind an ELC backup, as a SY guy who could step in if necessary, totally worth his paycheck.  Totally known quantity.

Streve is a #2, (with an ELC #3) who does SY and packages and is next man up if QB1 goes down.  Totally different niche, different budget, different role.  Totally known quantity.

Dru is a #2 who could be a 1B, who has an unknown ceiling.  SY, m'eh.  But he's not going to let you down if pressed into starting.  Streve struggled in that capacity.  Prokup too.

Three different scenarios, three different players, and unfortunately pretty much mutually exclusive as far as WFC $SMS is concerned.

If you sign Dru, you bring in a SY ELC dude (not Piggy please).  If you sign Streve or Prukop, you bring in an ELC guy for development, a guy with the potential to develop into a starter.

If you sign none of them, you bring in 3 or 4 or 5 guys to TC, of varying skillsets, and hope to get a development guy and a SY guy out of the deal.

But, phlease, no retreads.  No mining the scrap heap for a "QB with CFL experience".  There will be enough of those around should the unthinkable happen and QB1 goes down and we have rookie QB2&3...

Quote from: Jesse on January 13, 2024, 12:55:58 PM
Well, I have to say I completely disagree with you on Strev vs. Prukop. I'll take Strev any day of the week. We tried to what Strev does with Prukop, but it failed miserably and cost us the Grey Cup in '22. So, yes. Prukop doubled down on just performing the sneak to perfection. But it is not at all what Strev did for us.

A MOS team needs their SY to be 99%+.  Out of Le Feve, Marve, McGuire, Prukop and Strev, Strev had the most SY failures (3? 4? 5?).  Going by memory here, but this is one of the things I watch like a hawk(tm).  Prukop will get you 99%.  Not sure what Strev will do.

But as you laid out it's kind of apples to oranges, and I acknowledged that.  Strev buys you a legit sneak/pass/run option that has to be respected every time he's in SY.  I think he's the best the CFL has seen in that role in a decade.

So it's a trade off, and luckily WFC has proven we can do well with either approach.  However, if Strev is our #1b and #2, and we bring a dev ELC guy in as #3, then we'll be back to having 2 #2's with no "real" SY specialist.  Then the #2's get antsy that they are competing for who gets garbage time and garbage season duties.  The ELC guy probably would never see the field.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 13, 2024, 07:03:19 PM
But, phlease, no retreads.  No mining the scrap heap for a "QB with CFL experience".  There will be enough of those around should the unthinkable happen and QB1 goes down and we have rookie QB2&3...

It's the retreads that make the best SY specialists.  Le Feve & Prukop have been our best SY, and both are retreads.  When a long-term CFL QB has had enough chance to prove he's #1, and failed, they can morph into great, important, valuable SY-only guys.  The CFL has a role for them, and WFC is one of the best at signing them.

If we do get Strev, there's no need for a SY guy: I'd go for a raw ELC guy that might be the next Dru.  We succeeded with Strev and Dru.  We failed with Dom and McGuire.  Personally, I prefer Zach/Dru/Prukop, but apparently that's impossible.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 12:23:06 AM
It's the retreads that make the best SY specialists.  Le Feve & Prukop have been our best SY, and both are retreads.  When a long-term CFL QB has had enough chance to prove he's #1, and failed, they can morph into great, important, valuable SY-only guys.  The CFL has a role for them, and WFC is one of the best at signing them.

If we do get Strev, there's no need for a SY guy: I'd go for a raw ELC guy that might be the next Dru.  We succeeded with Strev and Dru.  We failed with Dom and McGuire.  Personally, I prefer Zach/Dru/Prukop, but apparently that's impossible.

I could not care less about the dumb SY role. Put anyone there for it. Or better yet, stop doing it so much.

Personally, I d sign Brown and let Prukop go (if you can't sign everyone), that way if Zack gets hurt or eventually retires, we're in good position.

Quote from: Jesse on January 14, 2024, 12:57:57 AM

I could not care less about the dumb SY role. Put anyone there for it. Or better yet, stop doing it so much.

Seriously?  MOS has said his philosophy is you just need to get 9 in 2 downs.  The extra 1-1.5 should be an automatic gimmee.  The 1 yard neutral zone makes it so.

Do you know how many games we won in the last 5 seasons (partially) by stopping opponents on SY?  That halftime stop in the GC should have won the game for us (via demoralization and momentum swing).  Did you see how many times in the regular season Dom Davis, Pigrome, and others, messed up a 3rd & 1 and put their teams in tough places?

I bet on average teams haul out a SY play 3-6 times a game.  For the most part those are must-convert situations.  A team takes SY lightly at their peril.

Can Zach be restructured ? Would he ? Or anyone else (Lawler) Need $$ for Shoen and BO. A good player will be leaving.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 12:23:06 AM
It's the retreads that make the best SY specialists.  Le Feve & Prukop have been our best SY, and both are retreads.  When a long-term CFL QB has had enough chance to prove he's #1, and failed, they can morph into great, important, valuable SY-only guys.  The CFL has a role for them, and WFC is one of the best at signing them.

If we do get Strev, there's no need for a SY guy: I'd go for a raw ELC guy that might be the next Dru.  We succeeded with Strev and Dru.  We failed with Dom and McGuire.  Personally, I prefer Zach/Dru/Prukop, but apparently that's impossible.

SY, maybe, if he is an ELC level deal, but #2, no.  If you review the whole post and not just the last line, you will understand my concepts, which preclude any QB's being paid a premium just for CFL experience, and not CFL success.  I'd rather have a guy with an unknown ceiling at an ELC cost, rather than a guy who has had some experience, limited success, but is paid $125k-$150k.  We need those $$$ elsewhere, and we need players that can surprise us with their play.

Quote from: Sec223 on January 14, 2024, 11:58:25 AM
Can Zach be restructured ? Would he ? Or anyone else (Lawler) Need $$ for Shoen and BO. A good player will be leaving.

I'm not sure that Zac can be restructured, for other qbs it has been paying out a bonus prior to season, that because of tax reasons still doesn't lessen the contract. Doesn't he live in Ontario off season? so the tax benefit may not be the same as someone who lives in the states.
The only way may be to
1. accept a true pay cut (which unless we feel he's on a definite decline he likely won't do
2. redo his contract for a longer term and less dollars per year, (likely guaranteed to some extent) which with his age I'm not sure we'd do,

Quote from: Pete on January 14, 2024, 03:52:20 PM
I'm not sure that Zac can be restructured, for other qbs it has been paying out a bonus prior to season, that because of tax reasons still doesn't lessen the contract. Doesn't he live in Ontario off season? so the tax benefit may not be the same as someone who lives in the states.
The only way may be to
1. accept a true pay cut (which unless we feel he's on a definite decline he likely won't do
2. redo his contract for a longer term and less dollars per year, (likely guaranteed to some extent) which with his age I'm not sure we'd do,

I can't see extending the contract at this point. Since we don't know all the details, there might already be an early bonus to reduce the tax situation.

Getting any player to agree to an actual cut is never going to be easy. He's is and has been the top QB in the CFL.

It's a huge risk to consider a trade option by staying with Brown. I have no idea what Brown would accept as a salary for next year if he was appointed as our starter. Let's just say $350K. In theory that would shave the SMS by $250K which is significant.

Trading Collaros could in theory bring big benefits in draft choices and / or possibly other trade value. That's what some have suggested we do and I understand the logic.

I'm not proposing we take this option but I wouldn't take it off the table quite yet either.

Lots of moving pieces with 27 potential free agents including 3 receivers, 4 OL, our starting RB and both our other QB's.

Who will be able to retain staying with Collaros and does the picture change if we decide Brown is a better option long term? Maybe our scouts will sign the next Kelly as our # 2 QB?

If any of us knew that answer we'd be a GM in the CFL, lol.

EDIT: Most GM's will know that any players success is dependent on the team around them.

I copied that from another string and is used to expand the thought of losses and gains in free agency as SMS is spent. Note that we have 4 starters looking to find an NFL home as well.

Bombers have been fortunate to sustain most of our roster over recent years. That may happen in 2024 as well. OTOH we could see significant changes compared to the last couple of years.

Makes for interesting debates and changes every time we re-sign a key player.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 14, 2024, 12:14:58 AM
A MOS team needs their SY to be 99%+.  Out of Le Feve, Marve, McGuire, Prukop and Strev, Strev had the most SY failures (3? 4? 5?).  Going by memory here, but this is one of the things I watch like a hawk(tm).  Prukop will get you 99%.  Not sure what Strev will do.

Tonight on Mythbusters!

99% is a pipe dream.

Over the past 20 years (since 2004) Blue Bombers QBs have a 91.7% success rate in short yardage situations (1 yard or less required for a first down).

I'm not sure what the love affair is with Robert Marve, you have mentioned his name several times. Marve has the second worst performance among QBs with at least 10 short yardage attempts.

Robert Marve - 82.6% (19/23)
Dan LeFevour - 97.5%   (39/40) - 2nd best since 2004
Chris Streveler - 94.8%   (91/96)
Sean McGuire - 92.9%   (26/28)
Dakota Prukop - 93.1%   (81/87)

Quote from: Stats Junkie on January 14, 2024, 06:28:09 PM
Tonight on Mythbusters!

99% is a pipe dream.

OK, call it missing 1 a season.  LeFeve did it, actually only missing 1 in 2 seasons.  That's my gold standard and why I always mention him first.  Looks like McGuire achieved it, too.  If you miss 0 or 1 attempt a season then that fits perfectly what MOS expects, and basically proves his point that you only need to aim for 9 yards.

Marve was OK at the time when we were sucking badly across the board, and had a pretty stinky OL.  I think he was one of the first that we turned a QB into a pure SY specialist.  We did give him some play time as #1 but he was really really bad.

Let's annotate the stats with failures divided by seasons (in bold), we'll exclude Marve since he was back when we were developing this whole idea:

Quote from: Stats Junkie on January 14, 2024, 06:28:09 PM
Dan LeFevour - 97.5%   (39/40)  1
Chris Streveler - 94.8%   (91/96)  2
Sean McGuire - 92.9%   (26/28)  1
Dakota Prukop - 93.1%   (81/87)  3

Pretty much matches my memory, with Strevie botching a few, however on a lot more attempts.

However, I don't for a second believe Prukop botched 6 3rd & 1's.  No way can that be correct.  It must include 2nd & short or whatever where he tried to throw or something.  For instance, from memory Prukop botched 0 or 1 3rd & 1's in 2023.  Maybe in his first year here he was slightly less effective?  To me Prukop is LeFeve level SY perfection.

You sure you're not including Piggy's failures before we canned him?  I've started re-watching the 2023 season and I'll specifically count Prukop's 3rd & 1 failures, and I guess go back to watch 2022 if I have to, also.

One thing's for sure, I do love to watch SY QBs who take their job extremely seriously and do all they can to hone their craft and work for 100% perfection.  As shown by posters here, it's a massively underappreciated role.  I have zero doubt MOS feels the same as me.

Imagine getting owned by Stats Junkie and then doubling down.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect on full display.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 15, 2024, 12:31:06 AM
Imagine getting owned by Stats Junkie and then doubling down.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect on full display.

:D

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 15, 2024, 12:31:06 AM
Imagine getting owned by Stats Junkie and then doubling down.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect on full display.

I'm telling you guys, there is zero chance Prukop botched 6 3rd & 1's in 2 seasons.  Zero.  None.  Nada.  I will buy Junkie a Walby Burger in week 1 if I am wrong.

There has to be more to that stat.  Either he's including 2nd down free-plays, or 3nd & 2+, or he's convoluting Piggy failures before we canned his butt.

I have every game on PVR... I can verify every play.  I'm in the process of doing 2023, but it'll take a few weeks.

So let it all hang out peanut gallery... you guys remember Prukop botching 6 3rd & 1's in 2022-2023??  Really?  Tell me the 2023 game he botched a sneak in, let alone 2 or 6(!).  I hope you're ready for some crow!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 02:38:20 AM
I'm telling you guys, there is zero chance Prukop botched 6 3rd & 1's in 2 seasons.  Zero.  None.  Nada.  I will buy Junkie a Walby Burger in week 1 if I am wrong.

There has to be more to that stat.  Either he's including 2nd down free-plays, or 3nd & 2+, or he's convoluting Piggy failures before we canned his butt.

I have every game on PVR... I can verify every play.  I'm in the process of doing 2023, but it'll take a few weeks.

So let it all hang out peanut gallery... you guys remember Prukop botching 6 3rd & 1's in 2022-2023??  Really?  Tell me the 2023 game he botched a sneak in, let alone 2 or 6(!).  I hope you're ready for some crow!

Piggie came in for 2 sneaks near the goal line in one series of game #1 and failed on both of them, that was the extent of his regular season reps. in Wpg..

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 02:38:20 AM
I'm telling you guys, there is zero chance Prukop botched 6 3rd & 1's in 2 seasons.  Zero.  None.  Nada.  I will buy Junkie a Walby Burger in week 1 if I am wrong.

I'd start saving some money if I were you.

To be precise: what I am calling a "botched" SY attempt only includes:
1. a play that results in a turnover on downs (i.e. getting 0.5Y on 3rd & 1) (like Dom Davis did so much in MTL and BC)
2. a failure to score from 1 yard out before the end of a half (like MTL in the GC) (this case is very very rare)

Possibly you could also include:
3. a loss of yards on 2nd & 1 that forces a punt/FG; if they make the subsequent 3rd & X I would not consider it a failure.

What is NOT a botched SY attempt is:
a) needing 2 tries to get the 1st down starting with 2nd & 1-2.
b) failing a pass on 2nd & 1 (2022 GC)
c) when the ball is handed off or passed in any manner, or snapped into any gun formation; Prukop coming in on 3rd & 1 and handing it off to Brady 3Y behind the LoS is not in any way a negative reflection on Prukop.  I think we only did that idiotic move once this season.  Those mistakes are on the OC/HC.

I'm purely trying to get at the effectiveness of a QB sneaking straight forward, and sometimes going end around, not gauging the gambling prowess of the OC or HC.  Prukop messing up the pass in the GC has nothing to do with his ability to sneak.  The entire premise is as I mentioned in my first post: can MOS be right when he says you only need to get 9 yards in 2 downs because you can always sneak that extra yard in the CFL.

I would also exclude botched 3rd down SY attempts of over 1.5Y.  That is more a failure of coaching (excessive gambling) than the SY guy.  However, if it makes the stats too hard, I am happy to concede up to 3rd & 2Y if I must.  It won't change the stats much for our team.

I am telling you all right now that Prukop did not cause the Bombers to lose 6 turnovers on downs in 2 seasons.  No way no how.  Keep in mind, that whereas Junkie is going by his copious and unique stats on his computer screen, I am going solely on my memory.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 15, 2024, 03:16:49 AM
Piggie came in for 2 sneaks near the goal line in one series of game #1 and failed on both of them, that was the extent of his regular season reps. in Wpg..

Which also illustrates my point: that MOS demands we can achieve 0-1 failures per season on 3rd & 1.  Piggie had that one job, and the fact we fired him so quickly after his one game of failures, further proves the point.  And if he canned Piggie for botching 2, he & KW wouldn't have been so revved up to get back Prukop if Prukop's record in 2022 was anywhere near 6 botches!!  Might as well just stick with Piggy for less money.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 02:38:20 AM
I hope you're ready for some crow!

But you already ate it all.

Wow...must be off season in January for everyone to be splitting hairs.   All I know is if we have to chose between Strevvy or Dakota, I'm going with Strevvy as he was able to actually win a few games in relief of Nichols in his first year.    He was also instrumental in our 2019 Quest to break our 29 year Grey Cup drought especially in the playoffs,   He's an absolute warrior and his teammates rally around him.    Dakota was a brilliant SY guy however Strevvy just brings more to the game, plus he's pretty good in SY situations at over 93% conversions.    IF we are fortunate enough to sign Strevvy then we scout for an ELC #3 QB and hope for the best.    The 1-2 Zach/Strevvy combo strikes fear into the hearts of opposing Ds.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 15, 2024, 01:15:33 PM
But you already ate it all.

Under his made up definition of what a SYA is, he?s probably right.

But it just underscores how limited Prukop is.

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 15, 2024, 03:23:19 PM
Wow...must be off season in January for everyone to be splitting hairs.   All I know is if we have to chose between Strevvy or Dakota, I'm going with Strevvy as he was able to actually win a few games in relief of Nichols in his first year.    He was also instrumental in our 2019 Quest to break our 29 year Grey Cup drought especially in the playoffs,   He's an absolute warrior and his teammates rally around him.    Dakota was a brilliant SY guy however Strevvy just brings more to the game, plus he's pretty good in SY situations at over 93% conversions.    IF we are fortunate enough to sign Strevvy then we scout for an ELC #3 QB and hope for the best.    The 1-2 Zach/Strevvy combo strikes fear into the hearts of opposing Ds.

Did you post this comment from the peanut gallery? ;)

Well said, BTW. Streveler is a unique talent in so many ways and he'd be a huge addition to the team should he return.

Personally, I think the Bombers win GC110 if Streveler's backing up Collaros rather than Prukop (whose lame duck INT in that game was one of the uglier plays in recent memory).

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 15, 2024, 03:59:02 AM
Which also illustrates my point: that MOS demands we can achieve 0-1 failures per season on 3rd & 1.  Piggie had that one job, and the fact we fired him so quickly after his one game of failures, further proves the point.  And if he canned Piggie for botching 2, he & KW wouldn't have been so revved up to get back Prukop if Prukop's record in 2022 was anywhere near 6 botches!!  Might as well just stick with Piggy for less money.

They did not release Piggie until Prukop agreed to return, it was not directly related to his performance on the field, Prukop was simply a more comfortable fit with the offence and in the QB room.  The biggest flaw in Piggies game seems to be that he's not a great communicator and over relies on raw talent.  I really hope a CFL team picks him up and invests the time in him, it would be a pity if he was one and done.

Not sure Pigrome has the build to be a CFL QB, even if the time/training was invested in him.  5'9, 206.  He's a little tank, for sure, but there is a lot that stature plays in, and that you have to overcome.

There were a few flashes of "raw talent", but if you can't develop, well...

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 05:53:29 PM
Not sure Pigrome has the build to be a CFL QB, even if the time/training was invested in him.  5'9, 206.  He's a little tank, for sure, but there is a lot that stature plays in, and that you have to overcome.

There were a few flashes of "raw talent", but if you can't develop, well...

He is short, but:

Kevin Glenn was 5'10", 203
Doug Flutie was 5'10", 180
Kyler Murray is 5'10", 207
Russell Wilson is 5'11", 215

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 15, 2024, 06:00:41 PM
He is short, but:

Kevin Glenn was 5'10", 203
Doug Flutie was 5'10", 180
Kyler Murray is 5'10", 207
Russell Wilson is 5'11", 215

Your 4 examples over a time period that spans 30 years kinda proves the point.

Quote from: Jesse on January 15, 2024, 06:33:56 PM
Your 4 examples over a time period that spans 30 years kinda proves the point.

Proves what? It's hard to be a starting QB in pro football? It's even harder when you're short, no denying it, but the CFL is historically been a place more accepting of shorter QBs. I don't think Pigrome will amount to much in the CFL but he, along with a ton of guys who are 6' or bigger will also be cut before long.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 15, 2024, 06:00:41 PM
He is short, but:

Kevin Glenn was 5'10", 203
Doug Flutie was 5'10", 180
Kyler Murray is 5'10", 207
Russell Wilson is 5'11", 215

All of those guys are actually taller than Piggy.

And I'm pretty sure all of those guys had pretty stellar Div 1 NCAA careers, a couple of Heismann winners, a first overall pick...

Piggy went undrafted ou of a Div II school.

But, yeah, a short guy can make it as an elite QB...

lol! Not  that guy

Quote from: theaardvark on January 15, 2024, 07:21:19 PM
All of those guys are actually taller than Piggy.

And I'm pretty sure all of those guys had pretty stellar Div 1 NCAA careers, a couple of Heismann winners, a first overall pick...

Piggy went undrafted ou of a Div II school.

But, yeah, a short guy can make it as an elite QB...

You're right. 5-9 might be too short if it's never been done before. I just mean that, in general, the CFL has been kinder to shorter quarterbacks and we've seen lots of sub 6-foot quarterbacks get good opportunities in Canada. Put it this way, I don't think it's his height that's going to disqualify him from a chance up here.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 18, 2024, 01:37:40 PM
You're right. 5-9 might be too short if it's never been done before. I just mean that, in general, the CFL has been kinder to shorter quarterbacks and we've seen lots of sub 6-foot quarterbacks get good opportunities in Canada. Put it this way, I don't think it's his height that's going to disqualify him from a chance up here.

You can't coach height..  sure, we have had more successful short QB's, because there are talented guys out there that being less than 6' eliminated them from consideration for the NFL.

Piggy lacks a lot of the essentials, and he might be able to be coached up, but the Bombers pulled the trigger immediately upon Prukop coming available, and that says volumes.

I'm sure he had intangibles that got him into our camp, and I think our scouts can find more where he came from, hopefully 6' plus...

Quote from: Waffler on January 13, 2024, 01:56:16 PMI'm thinking the same thing. We have 600k tied up in QB's before we even sign a 2nd one. Strev is the same problem Brown would be. Walters has himself painted into a corner. What did we spend on QB's last year? around 800? That leaves us just 200k for 2 additional guys.

Not exactly painted himself into a corner because Dru wanted to go to a team with a legit shot at competing for the #1 QB position, which wasn't an option for him with Zach signed long term until 25.    We may end up paying Strevvy the same $$ we might have for Dru however Strevvy would be a valuable addition to our team and it's chances of making a 5th
consecutive Cup appearance.   At least we managed to get a pick for Dru and at least we only have to play him once or twice a season AND he's not playing in our conference.   

Quote from: Lincoln Locomotive on January 19, 2024, 01:30:43 AMNot exactly painted himself into a corner because Dru wanted to go to a team with a legit shot at competing for the #1 QB position, which wasn't an option for him with Zach signed long term until 25.    We may end up paying Strevvy the same $$ we might have for Dru however Strevvy would be a valuable addition to our team and it's chances of making a 5th
consecutive Cup appearance.   At least we managed to get a pick for Dru and at least we only have to play him once or twice a season AND he's not playing in our conference.   

If Strevy has no shot at starting, he might accept that reality but I think it's going to take at least $225k to get him to sign, twice what they paid Brown.  The only way this would be possible is if they lost out on Schoen or Brady and gave the unused money to Strevy.  If they can't re-sign Schoen a good tradeoff would be Strevy running his package plays and handling short yardage.

I think we can get Prukop and a rookie for less that Streve alone, which then opens up a lot of money for Schoen/Olivera. 

Love Strevie, but I think we are better served with Prokup and hopefully the next Dru Brown.  Streveler is exciting, personable and has some very strong abilities, but I'm just not seeing the benefit overall that justifies what we assume his salary expectations are.

Now, if he's on a "mission to be on a team" and price is not a huge deal, then sure, I want him. If he signs for Prukop money, with starting bonuses, sign him up. 

But while BO20 and DS83 are unsigned, I don't want to spend on Streveler.  I don't want to have 20% of our SMS in QB's.

I think some might be missing the bigger picture here. I want Brady and Schoen and all that too, but when talking about building a championship roster in the CFL, the QB position is paramount.

We've been spoiled by getting lucky that Collaros has been staying upright most of the time the past couple of years, and we were lucky that when we needed to call on an inexperienced Brown that he eventually performed and improved. We know more than most fanbases that this is not how it works the vast majority of the time.

Therefore, what is the value of being able to say: we have an all-star vet QB1 who is backed up by a unique, dynamic and engaging Grey Cup champion fresh off a 4 year NFL stint?

We all talk about depth at various positions and how it's a necessity for a deep run, so why are we writing off the most important position and satisfied by "Dakota Prukop + George McKinnley"?

Having a strong stable QB core is at least as important as an elite receiving group or Canadian superstar RB...

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 19, 2024, 06:23:52 PMI think some might be missing the bigger picture here. I want Brady and Schoen and all that too, but when talking about building a championship roster in the CFL, the QB position is paramount.

We've been spoiled by getting lucky that Collaros has been staying upright most of the time the past couple of years, and we were lucky that when we needed to call on an inexperienced Brown that he eventually performed and improved. We know more than most fanbases that this is not how it works the vast majority of the time.

Therefore, what is the value of being able to say: we have an all-star vet QB1 who is backed up by a unique, dynamic and engaging Grey Cup champion fresh off a 4 year NFL stint?

We all talk about depth at various positions and how it's a necessity for a deep run, so why are we writing off the most important position and satisfied by "Dakota Prukop + George McKinnley"?

Having a strong stable QB core is at least as important as an elite receiving group or Canadian superstar RB...

I also think we're not planning on outbidding other team's for Strev's services.

It seems like there is not a starting opportunity out there right now for him. His best bet will be to take a one year deal to remind everyone what he can do, and perhaps get an opportunity next season. Money aside, his best opportunity to get on the field and show his skill is probably here. We've shown that we'll use him regularly even with Collaros starting. His cult status in Winnipeg probably offers him some off field opportunities to make money as well.

All that said, I'm hoping Walters gets him on a two year deal.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2024, 05:17:29 PMI think we can get Prukop and a rookie for less that Streve alone, which then opens up a lot of money for Schoen/Olivera. 

Love Strevie, but I think we are better served with Prokup and hopefully the next Dru Brown.  Streveler is exciting, personable and has some very strong abilities, but I'm just not seeing the benefit overall that justifies what we assume his salary expectations are.

Now, if he's on a "mission to be on a team" and price is not a huge deal, then sure, I want him. If he signs for Prukop money, with starting bonuses, sign him up. 

But while BO20 and DS83 are unsigned, I don't want to spend on Streveler.  I don't want to have 20% of our SMS in QB's.

I recall Walters saying in his pre-seaon presser last season that they planned to make good use of a "Steveler like package" for their 3rd string QB to run.  That really didn't materialize much last season as Prukop had very little package work.

I realize signing Strev. is a real long shot, but who better to run a "Steveler like package" than the man himself.  Last time he was in Wpg. the offence was almost unstoppable.

I don't think it's a long shot to reacquire Streveler. I just think he'll come at a bit of a premium.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 19, 2024, 07:28:13 PMI don't think it's a long shot to reacquire Streveler. I just think he'll come at a bit of a premium.

The stars would have to align, there won't be enough money to pay Brady, Dalton and Strev, they may end up with 2 out of 3, or 1 out of 3, but 3 out of 3 isn't going to happen.

Quote from: blue_or_die on January 19, 2024, 06:23:52 PMI think some might be missing the bigger picture here. I want Brady and Schoen and all that too, but when talking about building a championship roster in the CFL, the QB position is paramount.

We've been spoiled by getting lucky that Collaros has been staying upright most of the time the past couple of years, and we were lucky that when we needed to call on an inexperienced Brown that he eventually performed and improved. We know more than most fanbases that this is not how it works the vast majority of the time.

Therefore, what is the value of being able to say: we have an all-star vet QB1 who is backed up by a unique, dynamic and engaging Grey Cup champion fresh off a 4 year NFL stint?

We all talk about depth at various positions and how it's a necessity for a deep run, so why are we writing off the most important position and satisfied by "Dakota Prukop + George McKinnley"?

Having a strong stable QB core is at least as important as an elite receiving group or Canadian superstar RB...

Yes, you need a QB to win, period.

Streveler is a dynamic force, for sure, and as SY and special packages, no doubt he is very good to have on teh roster.

The question is:

Is Streveler a starter that can win you games taking 100% of the snaps?  Dru Brown won games as our starter.  Streveler not so much.

So, as a #2 guy, who might be pressed into starting a series of games, I'd prefer Dru (or his successor) over Streveler.

If we can get Streveler for the same price as Prokup, or within $30k, sure, I've love him on the team.  Especially with rookie with upside at #2.

But blowing the budget to get him in Blue and Gold, I'm not sure that's the best use of $SMS.  He'd probably sign here for less, taking into account he knows us and knows we've been to the GC 4 years running, so there's that money factored in.  But is there a team willing to give him extra $$$ because they have a cheap #1?  I guess we will see.

Is he more likely to win you a game than a more versatile QB

Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2024, 08:06:38 PMIs Streveler a starter that can win you games taking 100% of the snaps?  Dru Brown won games as our starter.  Streveler not so much.

The Bombers won games during the 2018 and 2019 seasons with Streveler as the starter.

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 19, 2024, 08:26:16 PMThe Bombers won games during the 2018 and 2019 seasons with Streveler as the starter.

Did they? 

Looking at the games where he had more than 15 attempts, because those are likely starts...

2018

06-14 Edm 33-30 L
06-22 Mtl 56-10 W
06-29 Ham 17-31 L
09-08 Ssk 32-27 L
11-03 Edm 24-37 L

2019
08-23 Edm 34-23 W
09-01 SSK 17-19 L
09-07 SSK 35-10 W
09-21 Mtl 38-37 L
09-27 Ham 33-13 L
10-05 Ssk 21-6 L
10-12 Mtl 35-24 W
10-19 Cgy 33-37 L

1-4 in 2018
3-8 in 2019

64.7% completion rate, 19 TD, 19 INT

Yeah, he won games as a starter, but not enough by a long shot.  4-12, 33.3 win %

Which is why he is absoulutely fabulous as a SY/gadget guy, but not a full time starter.  He's a tendency changer...

Those are the numbers.

Dru:

2022
10-15 BC 32-40 L  (we were playing our backups in BC)

2023
08-10 Edm 38-29 W
08-18 CGY 19-18 W
10-27 Cgy 36-13 W

That is a starters win%

Not saying Streveler isn't a force, or an asset any team would love to have.  I just don't think you can rely on him as a #2 to take over for a long term injury replacement...

the thing is, when we talk about Strevelers ability we are basing it on 3 years ago, how much has he developed since then with Nfl coaching and competing with nfl caliber players. Is Dru Brown the same qb he was even two years ago?
I think we are underestimating him as just being a game changer with his physical ability. I would love to see him back in blue and gold.

Quote from: Pete on January 19, 2024, 10:10:30 PMthe thing is, when we talk about Strevelers ability we are basing it on 3 years ago, how much has he developed since then with Nfl coaching and competing with nfl caliber players. Is Dru Brown the same qb he was even two years ago?
I think we are underestimating him as just being a game changer with his physical ability. I would love to see him back in blue and gold.

I was about to comment on this however you beat me to it....valid point!   

Quote from: Pete on January 19, 2024, 10:10:30 PMthe thing is, when we talk about Strevelers ability we are basing it on 3 years ago, how much has he developed since then with Nfl coaching and competing with nfl caliber players. Is Dru Brown the same qb he was even two years ago?
I think we are underestimating him as just being a game changer with his physical ability. I would love to see him back in blue and gold.

I don't think his coaching would have been to change his play, but to enhance it for their purposes.  And while he may have had a few years of NFL coaching, does that help make him a CFL QB, let alone a guy who can start effectively in the CFL?  The reads are so much different, if anything, it might hinder his CFL game management.

Again, as a change of pace guy for SY and special packages, I doubt there is his equal out there.  But as a starter, the jury is still out.  So, as a #3 package/SY guy, for sure if we can afford him, he does bring more than Prokup.  But I still want someone else to come in as #2 for in game / in season injury to our starter.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 20, 2024, 01:14:34 AMI don't think his coaching would have been to change his play, but to enhance it for their purposes.  And while he may have had a few years of NFL coaching, does that help make him a CFL QB, let alone a guy who can start effectively in the CFL?  The reads are so much different, if anything, it might hinder his CFL game management.

Again, as a change of pace guy for SY and special packages, I doubt there is his equal out there.  But as a starter, the jury is still out.  So, as a #3 package/SY guy, for sure if we can afford him, he does bring more than Prokup.  But I still want someone else to come in as #2 for in game / in season injury to our starter.

I don't think there are any starting positions available to Strev. right now, so if he wants to come back to the CFL this season he has to accept coming in as a #2 and biding his time till something happens.  He could resume the role he played in Wpg. on a lot of teams, as well as fill in as injury replacement, regardless I predict he will be busy and get plenty of snaps.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2024, 09:11:16 PMDid they? 

Looking at the games where he had more than 15 attempts, because those are likely starts...

2018

06-14 Edm 33-30 L
06-22 Mtl 56-10 W
06-29 Ham 17-31 L
09-08 Ssk 32-27 L
11-03 Edm 24-37 L

2019
08-23 Edm 34-23 W
09-01 SSK 17-19 L
09-07 SSK 35-10 W
09-21 Mtl 38-37 L
09-27 Ham 33-13 L
10-05 Ssk 21-6 L
10-12 Mtl 35-24 W
10-19 Cgy 33-37 L

1-4 in 2018
3-8 in 2019

64.7% completion rate, 19 TD, 19 INT

Yeah, he won games as a starter, but not enough by a long shot.  4-12, 33.3 win %

Which is why he is absoulutely fabulous as a SY/gadget guy, but not a full time starter.  He's a tendency changer...

Those are the numbers.

Dru:

2022
10-15 BC 32-40 L  (we were playing our backups in BC)

2023
08-10 Edm 38-29 W
08-18 CGY 19-18 W
10-27 Cgy 36-13 W

That is a starters win%

Not saying Streveler isn't a force, or an asset any team would love to have.  I just don't think you can rely on him as a #2 to take over for a long term injury replacement...

I guess I just don't know why you're comparing him to Dru. Dru's gone.

And your argument is about Streveler as a starter. Zach is our starter. We want Steve to come on in his 2019 play off role. There's no downside.

Quote from: Jesse on January 20, 2024, 04:03:20 AMI guess I just don't know why you're comparing him to Dru. Dru's gone.

And your argument is about Streveler as a starter. Zach is our starter. We want Steve to come on in his 2019 play off role. There's no downside.

Streveler was gone, Dru is gone... sure.

The comparison to Dru is about coming in when your starter is injured for a period of time.  In the capacity as #2, Dru won, Streveler did not.

I'm saying I'm fine with him as #3 SY/package guy, but I don't want him as #2 coming in as a game day injury replacement, and starter when #1 can't go.

I'd prefer a guy like Dru at #2, a development guy, a new guy with upside, who will step in as the replacement for #8, and be groomed to take over when #8 retires. 

Streveler is a great #3, ready to go in if #2 falters, and there for SY/packages.  If we can get him for that role at an affordable price, I'm all for it.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 20, 2024, 05:14:56 AMStreveler was gone, Dru is gone... sure.

The comparison to Dru is about coming in when your starter is injured for a period of time.  In the capacity as #2, Dru won, Streveler did not.

I'm saying I'm fine with him as #3 SY/package guy, but I don't want him as #2 coming in as a game day injury replacement, and starter when #1 can't go.

I'd prefer a guy like Dru at #2, a development guy, a new guy with upside, who will step in as the replacement for #8, and be groomed to take over when #8 retires.

Streveler is a great #3, ready to go in if #2 falters, and there for SY/packages.  If we can get him for that role at an affordable price, I'm all for it.

You're willing to trust a CFL rookie as the #2 QB over Streveler?  I'm not, he won't sign under those circumstances and he would instantly make the Bomber offence 25% more dynamic than it already is.  Over the next 2 years I'd be happy with everything  he could contribute to making them a better team, after 2025 we can re-examine if Zach chooses to retire.

If the Bombers could make every QB into the next Dru Brown, Prukop wouldn't be stuck  forever in "neverland".

Strevvy + Zach = DYNO-MITE!   Sign him!   Loved Strevvy from the very moment we first signed him!

Quote from: theaardvark on January 19, 2024, 09:11:16 PMDid they? 

Looking at the games where he had more than 15 attempts, because those are likely starts...

2018

06-14 Edm 33-30 L
06-22 Mtl 56-10 W
06-29 Ham 17-31 L
09-08 Ssk 32-27 L
11-03 Edm 24-37 L

2019
08-23 Edm 34-23 W
09-01 SSK 17-19 L
09-07 SSK 35-10 W
09-21 Mtl 38-37 L
09-27 Ham 33-13 L
10-05 Ssk 21-6 L
10-12 Mtl 35-24 W
10-19 Cgy 33-37 L

1-4 in 2018
3-8 in 2019

64.7% completion rate, 19 TD, 19 INT

Yeah, he won games as a starter, but not enough by a long shot.  4-12, 33.3 win %

Which is why he is absoulutely fabulous as a SY/gadget guy, but not a full time starter.  He's a tendency changer...

Those are the numbers.

Dru:

2022
10-15 BC 32-40 L  (we were playing our backups in BC)

2023
08-10 Edm 38-29 W
08-18 CGY 19-18 W
10-27 Cgy 36-13 W

That is a starters win%

Not saying Streveler isn't a force, or an asset any team would love to have.  I just don't think you can rely on him as a #2 to take over for a long term injury replacement...

Thanks for proving my point that Streveler was QB1 in games the Bombers won during the 2018 and 2019 seasons.

Didn't he come in to replace Nicholls who was injured early in the season in 2018.....basically a raw rookie at that point and he played more than one or two games, I believe.   I've always liked a 2 QB system as it really keeps Ds guessing especially when they have different styles like Zach and Chris.   Takes a good O-Line to adapt though

Quote from: blue_gold_84 on January 20, 2024, 09:29:21 PMThanks for proving my point that Streveler was QB1 in games the Bombers won during the 2018 and 2019 seasons.

Ya but he lost more games than he won by a long shot. If you think strevy is #1 material you are sadly mistaken. Great short yardage and smash mouth runner, but he isn't anywhere near the Qb Dru Brown is, not even close

Quote from: dd on January 20, 2024, 10:55:49 PMYa but he lost more games than he won by a long shot. If you think strevy is #1 material you are sadly mistaken. Great short yardage and smash mouth runner, but he isn't anywhere near the Qb Dru Brown is, not even close

But Dru Brown isn't an option.

So do we want Strev on our team as our short yardage and smash mouth runner and back-up, or do we want Shiltz or Cornelius or Fine?

I want Streveler.

I d be ok with mason fine as our #2, but strevy would be by far the more excit8ng of the 2.

Quote from: Jesse on January 20, 2024, 11:22:12 PMBut Dru Brown isn't an option.

So do we want Strev on our team as our short yardage and smash mouth runner and back-up, or do we want Shiltz or Cornelius or Fine?

I want Streveler.

I do not mind Shiltz either.

I want Sterveler or Prukop as #3, and the best rookie we can find who wins the #2 spot in camp.

I'd rather lose with a rookie QB we are developing than lose with a Fine, or a Shiltz, or even a Streveler in the #2 spot.

And cross my fingers Collaros takes the majority of the snaps for the year...

Quote from: theaardvark on January 21, 2024, 04:19:55 AMI want Sterveler or Prukop as #3, and the best rookie we can find who wins the #2 spot in camp.

I'd rather lose with a rookie QB we are developing than lose with a Fine, or a Shiltz, or even a Streveler in the #2 spot.

And cross my fingers Collaros takes the majority of the snaps for the year...

You're really swept up in the concept that the short yardage guy and the #2 are different positions. I know Walter's said that, but it was a function of our roster, not a concrete philosophy. If we sign Strevy and a rookie. The rookie will not be #2. He will be a developmental prospect.

Quote from: Jesse on January 21, 2024, 04:33:17 AMYou're really swept up in the concept that the short yardage guy and the #2 are different positions. I know Walter's said that, but it was a function of our roster, not a concrete philosophy. If we sign Strevy and a rookie. The rookie will not be #2. He will be a developmental prospect.

Agreed

Spend too much on streveller might be ok
 As long as bombers put up alot of points. If he wants to come back as he says why is he wanting so much money

Quote from: theaardvark on January 21, 2024, 04:19:55 AMI want Sterveler or Prukop as #3, and the best rookie we can find who wins the #2 spot in camp.

I'd rather lose with a rookie QB we are developing than lose with a Fine, or a Shiltz, or even a Streveler in the #2 spot.

And cross my fingers Collaros takes the majority of the snaps for the year...

Delevoping a QB is overrated in my opinion. Just field the best possible QBs you can regardless of where they came from.

QBs rarely stick with the team that brought them into the league. You need to look no further than Dru Brown as an example.

There is a high likelihood that Zach's eventual replacement will come from another team.

Quote from: gobombersgo on January 21, 2024, 02:27:42 PMDelevoping a QB is overrated in my opinion. Just field the best possible QBs you can regardless of where they came from.

QBs rarely stick with the team that brought them into the league. You need to look no further than Dru Brown as an example.

There is a high likelihood that Zach's eventual replacement will come from another team.

Developing a QB is not a talent issue, it is an economic issue.  The only reason we had Dru here was he was on an ELC.  We could afford to have a talented guy in the wings.

If we sign a retread CFL QB worth signing, it will NOT be at an ELC level.

Will we find a rookie QB that is talented enough to play #2?  I hope so.  And then we can have a Prokup/Streveler at a higher cost as our #3.  I'd want a talented rookie coming in and developing and maybe winning, rather than a QB that might not lose.

If we don't replace a QB from within, we will be paying a premium to replace Collaros.  And that might even be Dru. I really question Walters decision here, I hope I am proved wrong, but I think when CGY moved on from Mitchell to go with Maier, they weren't all wrong...   there was no way Buck, MOS or Walters would ever move on from Collaros, they are far to dedicated to vets, and Collaros hasn't played himself off this team, but Dru might have been the best chance of winning in 2025... 

Quote from: gobombersgo on January 21, 2024, 02:27:42 PMDelevoping a QB is overrated in my opinion. Just field the best possible QBs you can regardless of where they came from.

QBs rarely stick with the team that brought them into the league. You need to look no further than Dru Brown as an example.

There is a high likelihood that Zach's eventual replacement will come from another team.

Kind of pointless worrying about Zach's retirement and who will potentially replace him at this point, in the CFL plans rarely proceed in an orderly fashion.  They'll adjust to it when it happens with the options available, not 2 years in advance.  Till then, there are a couple more Grey Cups to play for and many games to be won. 

My rule of thumb is if a backup QB can win 50% of the games he starts while filling in, that's the expectation.  I'm confident Strev. could fill that requirement and bring more upside than any backup QB they could pick up this off-season, as long as the Bombers can meet his asking price.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 21, 2024, 03:43:25 PMKind of pointless worrying about Zach's retirement and who will potentially replace him at this point, in the CFL plans rarely proceed in an orderly fashion.  They'll adjust to it when it happens with the options available, not 2 years in advance.  Till then, there are a couple more Grey Cups to play for and many games to be won. 

My rule of thumb is if a backup QB can win 50% of the games he starts while filling in, that's the expectation.  I'm confident Strev. could fill that requirement and bring more upside than any backup QB they could pick up this off-season, as long as the Bombers can meet his asking price.

With a GC winning team around him, Streveler was 3 and 5 as a starter with the team going 8 and 2 the rest of the games.

He is a great player, but running the team for an entire game does not seem to have been his strength.

Is he the same QB today?  With NFL coaching?  Who knows what way that goes.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 21, 2024, 04:02:53 PMWith a GC winning team around him, Streveler was 3 and 5 as a starter with the team going 8 and 2 the rest of the games.

He is a great player, but running the team for an entire game does not seem to have been his strength.

Is he the same QB today?  With NFL coaching?  Who knows what way that goes.

I don't care. We're not trying to sign him to be our starter.

Quote from: Jesse on January 21, 2024, 04:44:06 PMI don't care. We're not trying to sign him to be our starter.

The problem would be the cost.
QB1 - Most costly in the league
QB2 - Searching for a replacement that has experience that can just plug and play (probably will cost more than most backups)
SYQB - How much is there left to spend to use Streveler as a short yardage QB?
I know that Streveler will do more than what most SYQB's do, but how much more? We will have a package for him to run the option, and that has proven to be effective. Plus, he would add a fire to our whole team and fanbase whenever he hits the turf.
The question is, how much is that worth to us, and how much do we have available?

Quote from: LXTSN on January 22, 2024, 02:31:44 PMThe problem would be the cost.
QB1 - Most costly in the league
QB2 - Searching for a replacement that has experience that can just plug and play (probably will cost more than most backups)
SYQB - How much is there left to spend to use Streveler as a short yardage QB?
I know that Streveler will do more than what most SYQB's do, but how much more? We will have a package for him to run the option, and that has proven to be effective. Plus, he would add a fire to our whole team and fanbase whenever he hits the turf.
The question is, how much is that worth to us, and how much do we have available?

We know what QB1 costs, and that another of the 3 will be on an ELC.  So what the budget is for the 3rd QB in the room is going to be a very easily defined number, based on our budget for the QB position.

Other than Streveler or Prukop, I don't see us investing in a premium cost "CFL experienced" QB, unless they come on the very, very cheap. 

Quote from: theaardvark on January 22, 2024, 06:38:40 PMWe know what QB1 costs, and that another of the 3 will be on an ELC.  So what the budget is for the 3rd QB in the room is going to be a very easily defined number, based on our budget for the QB position.

Other than Streveler or Prukop, I don't see us investing in a premium cost "CFL experienced" QB, unless they come on the very, very cheap. 

Here is the list of remaining QB's available in FA, other than Schiltz none can demand a significant pay increase.

Nick Arbuckle, Ottawa Redblacks (A)
Dominique Davis, B.C. Lions (A)
Jake Dolegala, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Mason Fine, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Kai Locksley, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)
Dakota Prukop, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (A)
Matthew Shiltz, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)

If they can't afford Strev. I would roll with Prukop for convenience sake, or wait until Ottawa is forced to cut one of their young QB's, don't see them cutting Crum unfortunately.  Wildcard is Cornelius, surprised someone hasn't already picked him up, he might be a good fit in Calgary.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 22, 2024, 06:51:10 PMHere is the list of remaining QB's available in FA, other than Schiltz none can demand a significant pay increase.

Nick Arbuckle, Ottawa Redblacks (A)
Dominique Davis, B.C. Lions (A)
Jake Dolegala, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Mason Fine, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Kai Locksley, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)
Dakota Prukop, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (A)
Matthew Shiltz, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)

If they can't afford Strev. I would roll with Prukop for convenience sake, or wait until Ottawa is forced to cut one of their young QB's, don't see them cutting Crum unfortunately.  Wildcard is Cornelius, surprised someone hasn't already picked him up, he might be a good fit in Calgary.

Other than Prukop, no one on that list (including Corny) interests me in the least.  They will all want/get significantly more than an ELC.  Shiltz still has a little upside, and might get an in-season injury phone call, but with what most teams are paying their starters, not sure what the market is for these tier two never made its is.  Might be a few teams that wil take a flyer on them to back up older/cheaper/injury prone QB's, which again takes them out of the price point we'd be looking for.

Prukop will possibly test the FA market, or even the new spring league, but I fully expect him back in camp, with Collaros, Prukop and one of the young guns we've signed entering the season.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 22, 2024, 08:30:45 PMOther than Prukop, no one on that list (including Corny) interests me in the least.  They will all want/get significantly more than an ELC.  Shiltz still has a little upside, and might get an in-season injury phone call, but with what most teams are paying their starters, not sure what the market is for these tier two never made its is.  Might be a few teams that wil take a flyer on them to back up older/cheaper/injury prone QB's, which again takes them out of the price point we'd be looking for.

Prukop will possibly test the FA market, or even the new spring league, but I fully expect him back in camp, with Collaros, Prukop and one of the young guns we've signed entering the season.

Last seasons "young gun" was Pigrome, who you've already written off before he's had the chance to play significant snaps in a single game.  How many years did it take Vernon Adams to emerge as a competent QB?

Not surprised nobody has picked up Cornelius, he s brutal

Quote from: dd on January 22, 2024, 10:27:21 PMNot surprised nobody has picked up Cornelius, he s brutal

He's competent at 3rd down. Jones already paid him 100k this year so maybe he'd come cheap enough for that?

Quote from: dd on January 22, 2024, 10:27:21 PMNot surprised nobody has picked up Cornelius, he s brutal

I wouldn't write him off yet, he's got the size and all the physical skills you could ever hope for, plus he did beat Dru Brown out for the starting job at OSU. So he might be a viable reclamation project in a good system.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 22, 2024, 10:11:51 PMLast seasons "young gun" was Pigrome, who you've already written off before he's had the chance to play significant snaps in a single game.  How many years did it take Vernon Adams to emerge as a competent QB?

How long did it take Anthony Cavillo to emerge?  Are we suggesting Pigrome is the next AC?

We bring in as many QB's as is possible to see how they adapt to the game.  Piggy had a couple exciting moments, but hasn't inspired much confidence in his play.  Certainly not more than Dru, and no where near as proven an entity as Prukop.

We have had a plethora of Piggies over the years, and the occasional Dru.  It doesn't take a long time to rule one out... but a little longer to judge one worthy of investing in.

Quote from: theaardvark on January 23, 2024, 04:24:34 AMHow long did it take Anthony Cavillo to emerge?  Are we suggesting Pigrome is the next AC?

We bring in as many QB's as is possible to see how they adapt to the game.  Piggy had a couple exciting moments, but hasn't inspired much confidence in his play.  Certainly not more than Dru, and no where near as proven an entity as Prukop.

We have had a plethora of Piggies over the years, and the occasional Dru.  It doesn't take a long time to rule one out... but a little longer to judge one worthy of investing in.

That's really bad reasoning on your part.
Obviously nobody is trying to say we threw away the next AC!
I don't think it's unreasonable though to say Pigrome provided a spark that (as Bomber fans) we haven't seen from a prospect for a while. I have to go back to Goltz which I realize is not the best example for my argument.
Every other team seems to be able to scout/recruit their QB's but we have such a hard time. Aside from Chris Streveler (who never was our full time starter), it's been a long time since we had a competent QB prospect. That's why I think most Bomber fans got pretty excited about Pigrome in the pre-season.
Just stop trying to yuck my yum.

Quote from: Throw Long Bannatyne on January 22, 2024, 06:51:10 PMHere is the list of remaining QB's available in FA, other than Schiltz none can demand a significant pay increase.

Nick Arbuckle, Ottawa Redblacks (A)
Dominique Davis, B.C. Lions (A)
Jake Dolegala, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Mason Fine, Saskatchewan Roughriders (A)
Kai Locksley, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)
Dakota Prukop, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (A)
Matthew Shiltz, Hamilton Tiger-Cats (A)

If they can't afford Strev. I would roll with Prukop for convenience sake, or wait until Ottawa is forced to cut one of their young QB's, don't see them cutting Crum unfortunately.  Wildcard is Cornelius, surprised someone hasn't already picked him up, he might be a good fit in Calgary.

Can take Mason Fine off the FA list, Riders just re-signed him.

https://www.riderville.com/2024/01/23/two-more-years-for-quarterback-mason-fine/

That makes sense, he's a decent Qb

Streveler will sell tickets but he is definitely not a threat in the air.

WOAH. Check the bombers instagram/twitter!
https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers/status/1752723256929394776

Quote from: LXTSN on January 31, 2024, 03:05:25 PMWOAH. Check the bombers instagram/twitter!
https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers/status/1752723256929394776

Holy mamma.

Quote from: LXTSN on January 31, 2024, 03:05:25 PMWOAH. Check the bombers instagram/twitter!
https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers/status/1752723256929394776

Interesting. If he does sign the 1st question is what does it cost us. Does it take away SMS from signing other key players?

It suggests to me that we don't re-sign Prukop and Streveler would also become our short yardage Qb and our # 2. IDK what Prokop earned but we'd likely sign an ELC development guy as our # 3 QB.

We already have #3QB on ELCs coming to camp.

Its either Streve or Prukop, might be why Prukop hasn't been signed yet.

Wonder if Collaros takes a little haircut to land Streve.  Or if Steveler even cares about the salary on a one year deal. 

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/01/31/winnipeg-blue-bombers-agree-to-terms-with-quarterback-chris-streveler/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers today announce the club has agreed to terms on a one-year contract with quarterback Chris Streveler.

Streveler (6-1, 216; South Dakota/Minnesota; born: January 6, 1995, in Naperville, IL.) returns to the Blue Bombers after spending the last four seasons in the National Football League, suiting up for nine regular season games and starting one during his days with the Arizona Cardinals and New York Jets.

Streveler first signed with the club on May 4th, 2018, and was the club's starter to open the season just a few weeks later following the sudden retirement of Darian Durant and an injury to Matt Nichols near the end of training camp. That made him the first straight-from-college quarterback to start Week 1 for a CFL team since Anthony Calvillo with the Las Vegas Posse in 1994 and the first for the Blue Bombers since John Schneider in 1968. He threw for 11 touchdowns in his first season in Winnipeg while rushing for 10 more, making him the first Winnipeg QB since Matt Dunigan to hit double-digit touchdown totals through the air and along the ground.

During the 2019 championship run, he again stepped in for an injured Nichols and guided the club to a 3-5 record. His 726 yards rushing that year established a club record by a quarterback, eclipsing Ken Ploen's mark of 541, set in 1960.

Streveler started 12 games in 2018 and 2019 with the Blue Bombers, going 4-8 in those games. He threw for 2,698 yards with 19 touchdowns and 19 interceptions during his days with the club, and rushed for 1,167 yards and 22 touchdowns.

Streveler began his college career at the University of Minnesota, playing both quarterback and receiver before transferring to the University of South Dakota. In his two seasons with the Coyotes, he threw for 6,081 yards and 54 touchdowns. In 2017, Streveler was named MVFC (Missouri Valley Football Conference) Offensive Player of the Year and was a finalist for the Walter Payton Award as the most outstanding offensive player in the NCAA Division 1 Football Championship Subdivision.

Wow ... I never thought this would happen.

Wow....good news since Dru is leaving us and he's definitely gained some more experience down south.   He's a dynamic player and his teammates love him to death.   If we can scheme him in our O package as we did in the 2019 GC game, defences will be cringing trying to stop us.  He's just so entertaining to watch and he's tough as nails....

Excellent signing. A steal @ $120K + Bonuses. Tell me again why Dru was worth $300k? ;D

Love, love, love this news. Best QB tandem in the league. I'd have to think Pierce is pretty excited to put his 2024 offensive system together.

The Strevelation!!

Quote from: TBURGESS on January 31, 2024, 06:06:39 PMExcellent signing. A steal @ $120K + Bonuses. Tell me again why Dru was worth $300k? ;D

It sounds like he took a big discount compared to other offers because he recognizes the marketing opportunities as a fan favorite in Winnipeg. That's a smart man.
You can only get paid to be a football player until you retire, but you can make a lot more for longer if you are smart about engaging fans and the community!

Quote from: LXTSN on January 31, 2024, 06:13:42 PMIt sounds like he took a big discount compared to other offers because he recognizes the marketing opportunities as a fan favorite in Winnipeg. That's a smart man.
You can only get paid to be a football player until you retire, but you can make a lot more for longer if you are smart about engaging fans and the community!

Someone should tell BO20 this.

Quote from: TBURGESS on January 31, 2024, 06:06:39 PMExcellent signing. A steal @ $120K + Bonuses. Tell me again why Dru was worth $300k? ;D

Because he can consistently complete passes and throws very few interceptions

I don't begrudge dru brown for getting what he got. Streveler is basically a wildcat running back for 2nd down and short yardage situations. Apple vs orange 

Quote from: TBURGESS on January 31, 2024, 06:06:39 PMExcellent signing. A steal @ $120K + Bonuses. Tell me again why Dru was worth $300k? ;D

Their circumstances are very different, that's why. It's a good signing and I'm happy we have a backup with some experience but it's not highway robbery or anything.

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 31, 2024, 06:47:28 PMTheir circumstances are very different, that's why. It's a good signing and I'm happy we have a backup with some experience but it's not highway robbery or anything.

Quote from: LXTSN on January 31, 2024, 06:13:42 PMIt sounds like he took a big discount compared to other offers because he recognizes the marketing opportunities as a fan favorite in Winnipeg. That's a smart man.
You can only get paid to be a football player until you retire, but you can make a lot more for longer if you are smart about engaging fans and the community!

Must kill the Riders they couldn't sign him for that price, he's exactly what they need to spell Harris.

Given the rule change that allows 2QBs on the field in 2024, I'm looking forwards to opposing DCs crapping their pants when they see Collaros under centre with Strev and eventual RB1 in a tandem backfield.  Handoff to Strev - does he put his head down and run, or toss a screen to RB1 in the flat?  Pitch to Strev with RB1 as lead blocker - does Strev run, or toss a rope down the sidelines to Lawler?  Toss a screen to Strev in the flat, and wonder if he puts his head down and rumble, or drop one downfield to Lawler or Woli?  What about ZC under center and a direct snap to Strevvy in the backfield?

Buck must be licking his chops in anticipation.....

Quote from: dd on January 31, 2024, 06:31:45 PMBecause he can consistently complete passes and throws very few interceptions

There is no guarantee he'd have been able to do that behind any other OLine than Winnipeg's, which was ranked #1 by  large margin.  Would he get the same numbers in Ottawa, which had/has the worst ranked OL in the league for 2 seasons in a row, according to Pro Football Focus?  I doubt it.

Really pleased with the signing by Walters and definitely anticipating healthy running by Strev.

Also improved in reading defenses and a better understanding of when and where to releasee the ball

On paper ------ a great 1-2 punch 

Quote from: VictorRomano on January 31, 2024, 07:24:46 PMThere is no guarantee he'd have been able to do that behind any other OLine than Winnipeg's, which was ranked #1 by  large margin.  Would he get the same numbers in Ottawa, which had/has the worst ranked OL in the league for 2 seasons in a row, according to Pro Football Focus?  I doubt it.

I m thinking since they invested in a decent Qb, its time they upgraded their bogus O line

Quote from: Sir Blue and Gold on January 31, 2024, 06:47:28 PMTheir circumstances are very different, that's why. It's a good signing and I'm happy we have a backup with some experience but it's not highway robbery or anything.

It is highway robbery.  We were going to pay Prukop at least that much, and Prukop can't throw (love him as SY though!!).

Strev isn't quite as good at SY but he's a run and pass threat on every snap, whether SY or not.

I'm not surprised we got him.  From all the chatter and hints and Prukop/#3 limbo I knew it was 50/50 something was going on and we were going to get Strev.

If I told the forum last week we'd land Strev for $120k everyone would have said it was impossible.  $120k??  If he had stayed beyond '19 he was going to cost way more than that.  Now we get a more-seasoned, NFL-vet Strev for $120k?  Get outta here!!  Best news of FA so far!

This solves all the problems @ QB and we can basically ignore losing Dru.  Prukop gets a big thanks for his service and walks.  And an ELC becomes #3 dev guy.  If Zach gets hurt, Strev is #1 for a few games.

Strev is a triple threat.  He's kind of Mahomes-like in that he'll stand in the pocket and then when nothing's there or his internal clock goes ding he takes off with such fast twitch you can't even believe it's real.

Sure, Strev has passing issues, but he was more than serviceable when here in '18-'19.  Surely he is as good as then or better now, after learning in the NFL.  He has a pretty big arm, though an unconventional motion, but it works for him.  His accuracy is mid-level.  His read speed is ok, but he can be tricked into the wrong read.  Maybe his worst aspect is hitting deep receivers in motion?

I'd say Strev is the best running QB out there (in CFL) that can still pass at a good level.  He's like a better Tre Ford.

I would have been fine signing him @ $200k, since he's basically a #2 and SY guy combined.  So $120k is indeed highway robbery.

Welcome back Strevie!!  Let's go kick some CFL butt!

P.S. We also have a possible Zach 2026 succession plan in place once again... if he proves better at passing than '18-'19...

  Great news! He'll lift the Bombers spirits.

Quote from: Blitzer on January 31, 2024, 11:40:21 PMGreat news! He'll lift the Bombers spirits.

Yup, this is our first "excitement" signing of FA.  There's something to be said for bringing the energy and thrill to the fans come week 1.  Morale is important for players and fans alike and precedes tangible results.

Good QB value price
Will sell tickets and provide exceptional entertainment
Very happy

Would have prefered Brown but he was too $

"There are a ton of reasons why Winnipeg is special to me"

"......So, this is a different dynamic coming into a team I'm familiar with, with guys I love, coaches... staff... players... fans... there's just so much love there for me. It's just exciting to go somewhere where what I bring to the table is appreciated.

"In the NFL I was in the room with a lot of guys who really changed the way I view the game," he added. "I'm really excited to put the things I've learned while being in the room with Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Teddy Bridgewater, Colt McCoy, Lamar (Jackson), Tua (Tagovailoa), Kyler (Murray). I'm excited now to bring that knowledge up to Winnipeg and share that with guys and hopefully make our team better......"

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/01/31/there-are-a-ton-of-reasons-why-winnipeg-is-special-to-me/

He didn't mention the forum?

Quote from: DM83 on February 01, 2024, 05:36:59 AMHe didn't mention the forum?

Well, we are the fans!

Quote from: TecnoGenius on January 31, 2024, 11:10:23 PMIt is highway robbery.  We were going to pay Prukop at least that much, and Prukop can't throw (love him as SY though!!).

Strev isn't quite as good at SY but he's a run and pass threat on every snap, whether SY or not.

I'm not surprised we got him.  From all the chatter and hints and Prukop/#3 limbo I knew it was 50/50 something was going on and we were going to get Strev.

If I told the forum last week we'd land Strev for $120k everyone would have said it was impossible.  $120k??  If he had stayed beyond '19 he was going to cost way more than that.  Now we get a more-seasoned, NFL-vet Strev for $120k?  Get outta here!!  Best news of FA so far!

This solves all the problems @ QB and we can basically ignore losing Dru.  Prukop gets a big thanks for his service and walks.  And an ELC becomes #3 dev guy.  If Zach gets hurt, Strev is #1 for a few games.

Strev is a triple threat.  He's kind of Mahomes-like in that he'll stand in the pocket and then when nothing's there or his internal clock goes ding he takes off with such fast twitch you can't even believe it's real.

Sure, Strev has passing issues, but he was more than serviceable when here in '18-'19.  Surely he is as good as then or better now, after learning in the NFL.  He has a pretty big arm, though an unconventional motion, but it works for him.  His accuracy is mid-level.  His read speed is ok, but he can be tricked into the wrong read.  Maybe his worst aspect is hitting deep receivers in motion?

I'd say Strev is the best running QB out there (in CFL) that can still pass at a good level.  He's like a better Tre Ford.

I would have been fine signing him @ $200k, since he's basically a #2 and SY guy combined.  So $120k is indeed highway robbery.

Welcome back Strevie!!  Let's go kick some CFL butt!

P.S. We also have a possible Zach 2026 succession plan in place once again... if he proves better at passing than '18-'19...

A ton of eyes are going to be opened by our #3 ELC guy come training camp. He is one of the big reasons we were able to bring back Strev imo. Eric Barriere is an absolute stud passer, and a guy we had on our neg list for a long time. If he can catch onto the CFL game he has all the tools to be quarterback of the future. He comes out of the CFL QB factory of Eastern Washington where he had great success and a system that is very CFL like. I think a lot of people are going to be impressed by him if he comes here hungry and motivated.

More on Strevvy.....

https://globalnews.ca/news/10266229/decision-for-chris-streveler-to-return-to-the-blue-bombers-happened-fast/

I am completely and thoroughly thrilled about the signing of CS. The man is a punishing beast behind center and what he brings to a locker room can't be overstated. His enthusiam and will to win is off the charts and contagious. Do we win the 2019 GC without him? Doubt it.

Count this Bomber fan as thrilled as can be at this news. I can't wait to get this season started.

Quote from: J5V on February 02, 2024, 12:54:22 PMI am completely and thoroughly thrilled about the signing of CS. The man is a punishing beast behind center and what he brings to a locker room can't be overstated. His enthusiam and will to win is off the charts and contagious. Do we win the 2019 GC without him? Doubt it.

Count this Bomber fan as thrilled as can be at this news. I can't wait to get this season started.

For sure. Absolutely under rated in this acquisition is the massive bump this is going to give the Bombers locker room. It will be massive and re-energizing for a group that maybe was seeing it's enthusiasm dip a little.

Quote from: GCn19 on February 02, 2024, 01:40:57 PMFor sure. Absolutely under rated in this acquisition is the massive bump this is going to give the Bombers locker room. It will be massive and re-energizing for a group that maybe was seeing it's enthusiasm dip a little.

Agreed. Probably the right signing at the right time. This year's team might be a bit of a re-load and some of the existing leaders are getting older. Need to start passing the heavy load off and Streveler is the right age with the right charisma, I think.

But can he play RT? 

CS17? CS15? Will add a new dimension to Buck's O and as long as Buck does not get too silly, its gonna be a lot of fun to watch.  2nd and short, converted, CSxx package stays in and boom goes the dynamite.

I heard he's heading to Drew Wolitarski's wedding to be the best man... that's gonna be some party.  Have to wonder if CSxx was waiting for DW82 to re-sign here before committing... 

Quote from: theaardvark on February 02, 2024, 03:01:09 PMBut can he play RT? 

CS17? CS15? Will add a new dimension to Buck's O and as long as Buck does not get too silly, its gonna be a lot of fun to watch.  2nd and short, converted, CSxx package stays in and boom goes the dynamite.

I heard he's heading to Drew Wolitarski's wedding to be the best man... that's gonna be some party.  Have to wonder if CSxx was waiting for DW82 to re-sign here before committing... 

He knew exactly where Woli was signing for a lot longer than we, or even the Bombers probably did.

He's definitely and advocate for the CFL.....such a positive influence for the Bombers and the entire CFL.  I couldn't be happier for the Bombers and landing him at such a good value contract, plus incentives.   I believe more contracts need to be structured this way!

Quote from: GCn19 on February 01, 2024, 12:42:23 PMA ton of eyes are going to be opened by our #3 ELC guy come training camp. He is one of the big reasons we were able to bring back Strev imo. Eric Barriere is an absolute stud passer, and a guy we had on our neg list for a long time. If he can catch onto the CFL game he has all the tools to be quarterback of the future. He comes out of the CFL QB factory of Eastern Washington where he had great success and a system that is very CFL like. I think a lot of people are going to be impressed by him if he comes here hungry and motivated.

I am more excited about Barriere than I am about Strev, he comes from a school that pump out decent CFL Qb's, so here's hoping on that guy!!

Streveler is a fan favorite and can sell tickets but there is no way he can be a legit CFL starter by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on February 02, 2024, 06:28:41 PMStreveler is a fan favorite and can sell tickets but there is no way he can be a legit CFL starter by any stretch of the imagination.

He's done more in the NFL than Rourke has... and Rourke would be the #1 starter in the CFL if he had stayed.

We have no idea what he can do now, and while I do not expect him to light up the league, I also would not be surprised if his one year deal here leads to a starters deal somewhere in the CFL next year.  He will only be 30, and has had 5 years of rubbing elbows with some of the best at the position.  DId he grow as a QB?  No doubt.  Does that make him a better CFL QB?  We will see.

In the meantime, we get to enjoy all that is the Strevelnation.

Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on February 02, 2024, 06:28:41 PMStreveler is a fan favorite and can sell tickets but there is no way he can be a legit CFL starter by any stretch of the imagination.

That's not why he was brought in, though.

Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on February 02, 2024, 06:28:41 PMStreveler is a fan favorite and can sell tickets but there is no way he can be a legit CFL starter by any stretch of the imagination.

[[/i]

Quote from: BLUEBOMBER on February 02, 2024, 06:28:41 PMStreveler is a fan favorite and can sell tickets but there is no way he can be a legit CFL starter by any stretch of the imagination.

I will reserve judgement on this til we actually see him play. Wouldn't be the first time one of us has had to eat crow

Quote from: theaardvark on February 02, 2024, 03:01:09 PMCS17? CS15? Will add a new dimension to Buck's O and as long as Buck does not get too silly, its gonna be a lot of fun to watch.  2nd and short, converted, CSxx package stays in and boom goes the dynamite.

Buck/Strevie need to focus on perfecting the sneak.  Strev was always a bit too quick to change to hitting the edge on 3rd & 1.  Or maybe it was Lapo.  In any event, I want to see a higher ratio of sneak to edge than when he was last here.  Teams start planning on contain and penetration when you abuse the sneak.

Quote from: GCn19 on February 01, 2024, 12:42:23 PMA ton of eyes are going to be opened by our #3 ELC guy come training camp. He is one of the big reasons we were able to bring back Strev imo. Eric Barriere is an absolute stud passer, and a guy we had on our neg list for a long time.

I hope you're right!  ELC IMP QBs are such a crapshoot.  You usually have to eyeball (and PS, and maybe garbage-time) 3-5 before you find one who can stick in the CFL.

Barriere: the name reminds me of an SCTV skit with Ben La Bearriere (with Molly Earl), Tony Rosata in a bear costume.

One thing is apparent....we seem to be strong in QB depth....perhaps the strongest in the CFL.  That's a great position to be in going into a new season.

For those interested in player numbers...

Darren Cameron
@Darren_Cameron
Streveler will return to his old #17. Defensive back Redha Kramdi has switched to #6.

I am wondering what that cost Strev.

Quote from: theaardvark on February 02, 2024, 06:35:39 PMHe's done more in the NFL than Rourke has... and Rourke would be the #1 starter in the CFL if he had stayed.

So many people seem to forget that Rourke was on an entry level contract with the BC Lions and due to that fact was on an absolutely loaded offence. Burnham and Whitehead were both in the 200k + range then they had Rhymes, Hatcher and a few other supporting cast. A pass heavy offence even due to having the WR's and OL.
I'm curious to what he would have looked like with Ottawa's OL and Calgary's WR(think they had a more drops than any team). I believe Rourke had some of his worst games against the top 3 teams in the league that year and looked like the second coming of Doug Flutie against the bottom 3 teams. Its easy to pad stats when your coaches allow it.
How many times in the last 2 seasons was Collaros pulled because it wasn't necessary to play him?
Rourke like Chad Kelly IMO are highly overrated QB's that may have only been successful due to entry level deals....I would love to eat crow on this at a later time. Just wait to see how Kelly does in 2024, he may have the best OL in the CFL but due to his contract his team is losing a lot of key players.

Quote from: Pigskin on February 07, 2024, 05:14:10 PMI am wondering what that cost Strev.

He had to sign over his NFL pension.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 07, 2024, 04:28:40 PMFor those interested in player numbers...

Darren Cameron
@Darren_Cameron
Streveler will return to his old #17. Defensive back Redha Kramdi has switched to #6.

Guessing that there a few more "Streveler 17" jerseys have been sold that "Kramdi 17".  No dig at Kramdi, he has been a good add, and his continued development is exciting, but Steveler 17 jerseys were probably still being sold regularly BEFORE he was re-signed...

Had time to watch the Feb 1 Strevie interview... wow.  What a guy.  How can you not like this guy?  Seriously.  He loves football.  He loves WPG.  Taking a fraction of NFL money to keep playing pro up here.

Seriously, who else says all the right things like this?  And 100% genuine.  Compare to Henoc's return-from-the-NFL, or anyone else's for that matter.  Especially a guy "making it" in the NFL for 5 years?  When do they even ever return?

No wonder fans league-wide like Strevie.

It's really encouraging to hear players like Streveler, Oliveira and Schoen talk about the special culture on the Bombers and the enjoyment they have playing in Winnipeg.

Quote from: TecnoGenius on February 09, 2024, 05:18:12 AMHad time to watch the Feb 1 Strevie interview... wow.  What a guy.  How can you not like this guy?  Seriously.  He loves football.  He loves WPG.  Taking a fraction of NFL money to keep playing pro up here.

Seriously, who else says all the right things like this?  And 100% genuine.  Compare to Henoc's return-from-the-NFL, or anyone else's for that matter.  Especially a guy "making it" in the NFL for 5 years?  When do they even ever return?

No wonder fans league-wide like Strevie.

Taking a fraction of the NFL money knowing he's the backup and won't see the turf except for SY and packages.  THAT is the kicker. 

In the NFL, he was Strevelski, no one even knew his name, and you can bet the fans knew little or nothing about him, and the team mates might feel his presence, but not like here.

This is going to be fun for him, back to the playing of the game, being a leader and a go to guy, not the guy sitting in the corner just in case 3 bad things happen and he's needed until they can bring someone else in.

Quote from: ModAdmin on February 09, 2024, 06:45:52 AMIt's really encouraging to hear players like Streveler, Oliveira and Schoen talk about the special culture on the Bombers and the enjoyment they have playing in Winnipeg.

its unfortunate that we havent been able to utilize this to draw free agents to Winnipeg. In the past 3 years  the only ones we've signed that i can think of are Castillo, and Lawler (who'd already been here)
Every year we've been so invested in our own players that no money is left. This year its coming back to bite us when likely we should have moved on from a few vets previously. Im actually glad in some ways that we are doing this now. We need to find some young talent now that we can sign for two years so we have space for 2025 to make needed additions.

Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2024, 06:44:33 PMits unfortunate that we havent been able to utilize this to draw free agents to Winnipeg. In the past 3 years  the only ones we've signed that i can think of are Castillo, and Lawler (who'd already been here)
Every year we've been so invested in our own players that no money is left. This year its coming back to bite us when likely we should have moved on from a few vets previously. Im actually glad in some ways that we are doing this now. We need to find some young talent now that we can sign for two years so we have space for 2025 to make needed additions.

That's by design, of course.

Quote from: Pete on February 09, 2024, 06:44:33 PMits unfortunate that we havent been able to utilize this to draw free agents to Winnipeg. In the past 3 years  the only ones we've signed that i can think of are Castillo, and Lawler (who'd already been here)

In the "competitive era" (2018+) we did use it to draw in a few guys, I think.  It certainly couldn't have hurt when we signed Taylor, Maston, Darby, Gaitor, A.Bowman, Ellingson.

I see what you're saying, but I think the lack of FA splash is more a function of really liking the pieces we have (and being good at retaining them) and lack of money because we're paying the existing pieces so much.

I think we can do without the later-career big-name big-$$ big-splash signings (Bowman, Ellingson), but I would like to see more of the quietly-steal-underrated-players-away stuff, like Taylor, Maston.  Those guys were key to winning that first cup.  I think that's the way to "win FA": unloved or forgotten mid-career gems for cheap.  (CGY is very good at this.)

You can't "splash" in free agency when your current roster is as close to the cap as ours is.  Every year we have a few more players needing "elite" money.  Brady and Dalton pushed that past the limit this year.  Kolankowsky probably got a good raise.  We couldn't afford to sign Houston, Walker or Yoshi, so we definitely can't sign any elite players to elite contracts either.

Toronto is getting killed in free agency, we've done pretty well in holding onto our players.  Making a "splash" sometimes just means holding onto your best players, and we've done that. 

Plus, we added Streveler...

Quote from: theaardvark on February 09, 2024, 09:43:27 PMToronto is getting killed in free agency, we've done pretty well in holding onto our players.  Making a "splash" sometimes just means holding onto your best players, and we've done that. 

And MTL will get killed in FA in 2025 when all their spectacular 2023 rookies need to get paid.  Too bad we won't have the money for Ento...